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Llama's picture

http://edge.networkworld.com/graphics/2009/0402%20Rockefeller%20cybersec...

^this^ is a new bill that has come across the senate on april 1st. tis the cybersecurity bill. basically it gives the power to the government to take over the internet in times of “cybersecurity emergency.”

also ground squirrel told me about the us special virus program. bout the govt making aids. looked into it some more. there are patents for HIV and the cure. this video will tell you most of what you need to know.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8567399552051355527

wonder why we dont hear anything....

Mallard's picture

And again I jump into the fray...

Not to revive a dead thread, but I found an article that is kind of relevant.

http://i.gizmodo.com/5221630/hackers-going-full-brazilian-on-us-satellites

As far as I can tell this is the kind of thing this bill looks to remedy by way of eliminating the government's inept digital security management.

Just an example to make my point clearer.

Llama's picture

tax man

well we all have heard of this but here is a video that you may or may not have seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKePl2gW_3M&feature=player_embedded
its about taxes

Llama's picture

jaja

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PvaNWrkFeQ&feature=related
cnbc segment with ron paul and that same irs agent. perspective go!

Llama's picture

new thing

http://www.all-natural.com/fleffect.html
flouride are bads?
fun stuff.

Mule's picture

Yes, that's why you don't eat

Yes, that's why you don't eat it. Fluoride levels in water are much lower than in toothpaste. Spit after you brush your teeth. I don't know if any of you guys know people who refuse to drink fluordated water, but their teeth are almost always really fucked up.

Llama's picture

yergh

good to know science man! thanks you

admin's picture

Embeding? oh my!

Just an FYI I went in and embedded the video into your post to make things easier. Also I added the category "video" to round it all out.

Mallard's picture

This is why we can't have nice things

After reading the first part (up to the 11th paragraph of the findings, i are sleepy) it doesn't come off as all that bad. From what I can piece together from all of the Government talk it seems like they are talking about strengthening the security of civic services. It seems like they are trying to up the required amount of protection needed for civic services that use the internet. More specifically "public and private institutions in the sectors of agriculture, food, water, public health, emergency services, government, defense industrial base, information and telecommunications, energy, transportation, banking finance, chemicals and hazardous materials, and postal and shipping". I think they are talking about strengthening the defenses and bringing about harsher punishment for hackers (the real ones not anon).

Granted I haven't read the whole thing, but so far it doesn't seem like anything that infringes on our rights. It's not like they are threatening net neutrality or something. Oh yea and Luke, hows 'bout you read the goddamn thing before you call me a fuck and tell me to "wake up". Shit as far as I can tell you're still dreaming.

Mallard's picture

I read a bit more. Highlights!

-They mentioned China. It wasn't within a censorship context but still, eww.
-Basically it sounds like they want to make a panel that would look at emerging trends in technology and change US cyber protection to reflect these changes. To put it simply, they would kinda be the equivalent of a government wide IT department. If some jackass scribe downloads a trojan while fapping it at work it would be this panel's job to take that information and pass it on to other divisions like Congress, the Department of Agriculture, the FBI, and what not. This would mark a change in the relatively laissez-faire approach the US has taken towards its cyber protection. They would, more or less, fix a hole in something (government intranet) and be all like "WE FIXED IT GOOD DIDNT WE GEORGE". Then they would just leave it alone rather than keep updating it with each new era of virus. Our defense was static unless attacked. Of course this is a sweeping generalization, but that is what this bill is in a way.

Now onto the AIDS thing. I'm not gonna pretend to know shit about some special virus program that has only one existing handbook left. I just want to point out that the patent he talks about isn't a guaranteed cure. It remains untested and the description is most likely a deceleration of intent rather than its actual effect. There are a lot of patents that do that.
Example:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=vzceAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent+HIV&client=firef...
http://www.google.com/patents?id=EwUKAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent+HIV&client=firef...

I'm not attacking anybody (except luke :P) but there are many sides to these issues and you do them an injustice by just taking the first side you see.

Ground Squirrel's picture

i speak to all

i like how you always attack me. no matter what. it shows your not really thinking, just reacting. also, to so say that the material i put forth is my opinion is recockulous. my opinions are just that, MINE, not some asshole's who made a documentary, or some guy's who found some old gov. papers. as i says, i raped with school, i read later. but, just consider some things:
-the tv media has been utterly compromised (if you have doubts about this i simply don't know what to say. look around? compare whats happening to what they are reporting?) the internet in this form is the best free forum ever utilized by humans, if you think the gov. doesn't want to curtail it then i question your understanding of government (you said it best, china = eww [also falang gong, reintroduce yourselves to their plight, much like ze goggles, we do nothing]) NOT TO MENTION HOW CHAIRMAN MAO CAME TO POWER, WHO BACKED HIM, WHO SUPPORTED HIM. LOOK THAT UP. DO IT.
-look at the wording of the patriot act. it targets threats of national security. yet protesters, anarchists, and even members of peta have been illegally searched under its heading. everyone the state wants is a terrorist. that is the point. they set forth a bill and use it to do whatever they want. and in case you have not noticed, THEY DO WHATEVER THEY WANT. regaurdless of public wishes or sentiment. not to mentions that it has bred a total suspension of habeas corpus. but now i feel a rant comming on.

all im saying is, look at what they are attempting to regulate, look at how they have regulated public forums in the past, and look at how they use the literature written to regulate said forums. if it doesn't automatically look bad then i again simply don't know what to say.

Mallard's picture

ok ok

Ok it's true that I do always tend to attack you, but that's because you are never friendly in your presentation. It's never "Oh check this out guys. This needs a good reading over.". Instead you climb atop a high fucking horse and say dumb 9th grader shit like "WAKE UP YOU FUCKS AND SEE THE ONLY TRUE LIGHT THAT IS MY OPINION! STOP BEING SHEEPLE". If you weren't so goddamn combative about it then perhaps I wouldn't try to call you out every time.

-Yes the TV media has been compromised. Yes we give no support to the Falang Gong (as well as countless other people outside China, the Hmong are even getting fucked here on US soil). But these points are mute. They aren't relevant. The FCC was created with he soul intention of regulation creative output. The Patriot act expressly says that civil liberties can be secondary to national security. But as far as I can tell (I still haven't read the whole thing) this bill doesn't say any of that. As I tried to explain, it seems to be about strengthening the country's cyber defense rather than it's cyber offense. It aims to set up a panel that will be responsible for the defense (firewalls, intranet access) of government agencies and key civil services. Never does it say that "in case of a terrorist attack" Deviant Art or Myspace are going to be under government control. What it does say is that if there is a "cyber attack" on a power plant or phone company (both of which have switched mainly computer control) this panel will oversee the defensive operations in conjunction with other government agencies.

Llama's picture

so

i think the main purpose of this bill is to create a curtain. some piece of legality to hide behind if they ever need to unlawfully take something off the internet. you know that the net is pretty much the only place that information/evidence is capable of being spread by a simple click of a mouse. take wikileaks for example. since there could be leaked documents that could be "detrimental to the security of the country" this bill would give the power to the government to censor them. just like china. i just dont want to see the governments grimy ass fingers on that series of shiny tubes we call the internet. just more power to someone who doesnt deserve it.
on the aids bit, the cure he talks about is only one way. i came across this method of electrifying the blood with low doses of electricity to foul up the magnetic layer of the morphed cells so they cant grapple to good ones. apparently it makes the virus inert. i cant factually state who has been cured or not, but in my digging i came up on many testimonials from people with aids and cancer and what have you, that seemed to stand by and fully support the methods. once again i find that the evidence stacks against the government.
on luke. first off i think the sheeple quote was from me. i can state for myself that when i usually post about these things or interact with these ideas im very angry. some of which i transfer in the post. i tend to yell at you all more than talk because i feel if i do, the shock value, be it small yet more effective than none, will make you pay more attention to the facts at hand. its hard seeing all this injustice slip under the noses of so many. so the lack of knowledge could warrant a command rather than a passive approach.

Mallard's picture

lol sheeple

-Yea come to think of it the sheeple quote was from you. I guess I'm more frustrated by the attitude as a whole rather than Luke specifically. It just seems pointlessly negative. Particularly because it's towards people you are trying to enlighten. If some religious asshole came up to you and started telling you to "wake up you fucks" it's not going to go over well. It wont make you more interested in their religion, it wont make you wanna learn more about it, it just makes you really pissed off. That's how it feels when the two of you get all in a tiff about something you read online. You post it here assuming that we are going to disagree and then verbally abuse us when we question your sources. If I take the time to read over something and post a large response to it I would like the reaction to at least have some sense of respect. Far too often it seems like the response is "OH REALLY? WELL YOU ARE WRONG AND A TOTAL TOOL AS WELL STOP SUCKING THE GOVERNMENTS DICK". That's just not productive at all.

But I digress. All I'm saying is that perhaps it would be a good idea to calm down a little before you post this stuff. It would do the material more justice if we could have an actual conversation about it rather than just shitting on each other.

-I don't think it's a curtain at all. If it was then the language would be much more murky. It specifically states what kinds of systems will be effected by stating "public and private institutions in the sectors of agriculture, food, water, public health, emergency services, government, defense industrial base, information and telecommunications, energy, transportation, banking finance, chemicals and hazardous materials, and postal and shipping". If this was some kind of curtain then they wouldn't even try to name shit like that. In that situation it would be much more effective if they just said "stuff" or something. I will admit that I haven't read too far into it so there are things I still haven't seen. Keeping this in mind lets see some citation here. If you see something that sounds like it may lead to censorship then point me towards it. I'm not even being sarcastic or anything. I really want to see some of these parts that make you believe what you do.

I'm not just disagreeing because I "love" Obama or some shit. I just don't see anything particularly threatening in this. But if you guys point me towards some good evidence then I'll be just as pissed as you. Fuck I don't want to see any censorship either! I'm just slow and careful to anger.

Mallard's picture

This Just In...

So I just read this article from that site that the bill was linked on.

http://edge.networkworld.com/columnists/2009/041309-backspin.html?ts0hb&...

I can see what this guy is talking about and he makes a good point. But I think he's misunderstanding parts of the bill, which is understandable considering it is government talk. He points out section 18 and questions what would qualify as "critical infrastructure".
-Section 18: He uses the term "internet kill switch" in a misleading way. He makes it seem like the government can order the WHOLE internet to be shut down. But, from what I can tell, the bill is just saying that under a "cyber attack" the government can disconnect specific institutions from the net. For example, if a "hacker" is "attacking" the FBI or Amtrak the government has the power to unplug their ethernet cord. What it doesn't say is that the government has the power to just "kill" the internet for everyone.
In other words it allows the government to isolate specific institutions critical to our infrastructure from the net in an emergency.

-critical infrastructure: He has a point about what should qualify as critical infrastructure. I get the feeling that this is something that should be ironed out via proof reading but I don't think it was intentionally malicious. It does go out of it's way to mention some examples earlier in the bill ("public and private institutions in the sectors of agriculture, food, water," blah, blah, blah). However, if there was something to worry about in the bill I think it would be the definition of a "cyber attack". Again, I havent read the whole thing, but so far there has been no definition. Does this mean that incorrectly signing onto you online bank account would count as an attack? This is a big loop hole but I think it more reflects our government's slow adaptation rather than a fault of the bill itself.
I also think it's important to keep in mind that this is a legal document. So it may be intentionally vague in some parts in an attempt to stay flexible in regards to an ever shifting "threat". It would be a pain if they didn't have access to the same powers just because the attack is slightly different than the ones defined in the bill.
But this is more me trying to look at it from every side rather than me defending poor description.

Mule's picture

Some points

Yeah, you could definitely run voltage through your blood. There are two options for that:

  1. it would do nothing because the voltage isn't high enough to have any effect on the ions that viruses use to bind to cells (kinda like licking a battery, except STRAIGHT INTO YOUR BLOODSTREAM
  2. it would kill you because the voltage is so high

Now, my roommate and I have discussed this for a few minutes, and we came up with a number of ways in which this voltage would kill you, listed in no particular order:

  • Heart attack
  • Brain and nerve damage
  • If the voltage is actually high enough to neutralize the charge of the ions (mostly Ca++, Mg++) that viruses use to attach to cells: 1) crystallizing in your blood vessels and falling out of solution, 2) rapidly regaining their positive charges in an extremely energetic (explosive -- think what happens when you add Na metal to water), 3) become dangerously hot from the energy released when the uncharged metals are hydrated within your blood
  • If the voltage is high enough to neutralize the charge of the Ca++ and Mg++ ions, it would be more than enough to neutralize other (monovalent) ions, such as K+, Na+ and H+. Aside from the problems I already mentioned about Ca++ and Mg++ also being very true for these ions, your own cells use these ions. Potassium, sodium, and protons are all very important to the basic workings of every cell in your body. Yes, EVERY cell. All of them. Neutralizing them would be bad.

Also, you should take the patent documents with a grain of salt. Not having seen any of these specific patent documents, I can't say for sure that any of these ideas are applicable, but you should keep them in mind when you examine any official document, not just patents:

  • The date the document was filed. Is this a patent for HIV from just a couple years ago? If it is, it might actually be a patent for the sequenced genome (yes, companies own the patents to genetic code. Now that is something to be worried about that you don't hear in the news).
  • When you patent a medical treatment, you don't have to have any proof that it works at all. You don't even have to pretend to have proof. You're just patenting the idea.
  • Is it obvious that I just figured out how to make bulleted and numbered lists?

So, sorry for the biology, chemistry, and biochem lecture, but there ya go! I don't mean to harp on you at all Tanner, but sometimes a suggestions is just so scientifically silly that I have to set the record straight.

Llama's picture

some info...

a few sources you can look through it if you feel so inclined
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLxvJtp_ho0
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT5676977
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4647773
http://www.boydgraves.com/
you can download the us special virus program documents here
http://www.boydgraves.com/svcp/

tis all the ones that come to mind at the moment. enjoy

Mallard's picture

MK-NAOMI

The more I read on Graves' site the more it becomes apparent to me that this is a race issue to him. He sees it as the government's way of getting rid of the blacks. The blacks are the only group he names specifically, choosing to refer to everyone else as "undesirables" (not as an insult). This is reflected in his explanation of the project's name, MK-NAOMI.

The “MK” portion stands for the two co-authors of the AIDS virus, Robert Manaker and Paul Kotin. The “NAOMI” portion stands for “Negroes are Only Momentary Individuals.”
http://www.boydgraves.com/timeline/ (look at the endish area)

You have to be shitting me. So the virus that spread throughout every culture and race was made specifically to kill the black community? How the fuck does that make any sense?! If anything it was "made" to fuck the gay community. Also, how does he explain the outbreaks of AIDS everywhere else in the world? This isn't an attempt to cure the virus on moral grounds, this is the result of a paranoid, black-centric worldview. I can understand where it comes from, but that doesn't make it anymore valid than white workers complaining about the Mexicans stealing their jobs.

BTW, I'm not really asking anyone these questions. Feel free to answer them if you want, but this was more of a rant than anything else. It just frustrates me to no end when I see people act like this. Some of it may be "justified" but that doesn't excuse the hate and meaningless paranoia it breeds.

EDIT: I just realized that he makes it sound like Foxdie. I loled.
http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/FoxDie

Mule's picture

Mhmm

Sorry it took me so long to post my response to this one. I thought I already posted something, but I think I ran out of time and had to go to class and then forgot and restarted my computer before finishing the post.

For the first patent document: I can't speak to the efficacy of this specific chemical. However, I would guess that if it is as effective as the patent (and the rest of the internet) claims, I know exactly why it isn't commercially available. Money. The chemical is made with silver. Silver ain't cheap. Even if it were, I don't think there's enough silver on the planet to cure everyone infected with HIV.

For the second patent document: Firstly, look at the filing date. HIV was around before 1984. Secondly, if you read more than the title of the patent filing, you see it isn't about reproducing the virus to infect people. It's to study the virus outside of a human body. Don't take this as being condescending, but I don't expect you to understand the stuff in the patent. It's really complicated shit. I don't even understand most of it. In fact, I think a lot of times companies will purposefully make their patent filings overly complicated so that it's harder for them to get ripped off.

As for the documents detailing the US gov't involvement in virus production: yes, it's called biological warfare. I don't believe they created HIV. Honestly, we don't have the technology to create viruses from scratch. My class has done some work with viruses this semester, and it's really fuckin hard just to get normal viruses to grow, much less engineer them.
One of the problems with conspiracy theories like this is that the documents are so absurdly long that nobody in their right mind would read them, so you have to just take the word of whoever is telling you about them.

Also, this isn't directly related here, but it's a good point to make. One of my chemistry professors did a lot work in grad school trying to make anti-HIV drugs. She made one that looked incredibly promising, too. It made it completely impossible to HIV to infect new cells. The only problem was that it also killed every single cell it contacted. There are lots of antiviral agents whose mode of activity is to harm the target cells. A lot of people don't understand the way most cancer treatments work: they kill all your cells slowly. All of them. The theory is that cancer cells divide so rapidly that you kill them all before you kill yourself. Sometimes it doesn't work.

This is a total tangent, but kind of an interesting factoid. Before the discovery of antibiotics, one of the most common treatments for bacterial infections was snake venom. It worked (and failed) under basically the same principle.

Mallard's picture

BTW

Apparently there are roughly 671 million ounces of silver in the world (theoretically). Just thought I would throw out that out there.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/zurbuchen112105.html

Also, I'm glad Dan brought up the issue of cost. If there is anything we can all agree on I think it's the injustice created by the price effective AIDS medication. The fact that poor countries with widespread AIDS infections can't get the latest medical treatment is far more enraging than the "creation" of the virus itself. And while these prices may not be the result of malicious intent it is no less frustrating.

Thankfully people are actually working towards solving this problem. There are huge steps being made towards better distribution every year. While it is a problem that shouldn't exist (at least on an ethical level) it's nice to see the international community actually make progress.

http://www.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUSLM599380._CH_.2400
http://www.boston.com/news/world/africa/articles/2005/06/20/aids_drugs_h...
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/twr120f.htm
http://www.avert.org/drugtreatment.htm
http://www.time.com/time/2001/aidsinafrica/drugs.html

Pay attention to the dates. They are out of order. But I would focus mainly on the first and the last articles. They provide an interesting contrast between progress and stubbornness.

Ground Squirrel's picture

bump

that first link is very important. everyone should read it.

Llama's picture

glad someone saw this.

glad someone saw this.

Ground Squirrel's picture

serious face

dude, this could be it. im gonna go through the whole thing this week, but the first point tells it all:
"America's failure to protect cyberspace is one of the most urgent national security problems faceing this country."
thats it. in the name of national security. i hope you fucks wake up. its a slow, buerocratic takeover.

Llama's picture

the plot thickens

my favorite part is that rockerfeller is heading the bill

Ground Squirrel's picture

duuuuuuuuuude

i was gonna say that